Dorner manhunt: Lawyer calls shootings of paper carriers ‘unacceptable’

Dorner manhunt: Lawyer calls shootings of paper carriers ‘unacceptable’

LAPD_LogoAn attorney representing two women who were delivering newspapers when they were shot by police during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer called the incident “unacceptable,” saying his clients looked nothing like the suspect.

Emma Hernandez, 71, was delivering the Los Angeles Times with her daughter, Margie Carranza, 47, in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue in Torrance on Thursday morning when Los Angeles police detectives apparently mistook their pickup for that of Christopher Dorner, the 33-year-old fugitive suspected of killing three people and injuring two others.

Hernandez, who attorney Glen T. Jonas said was shot twice in the back, was in stable condition late Thursday. Carranza received stitches on her finger.

“The problem with the situation is it looked like the police had the goal of administering street justice and in so doing, didn’t take the time to notice that these two older, small Latina women don’t look like a large black man,” Jonas said. SOURCE

Bullet Riddled TruckA while back I had a serious battle with a Central California blogger over his ideas about Police and Law Enforcement, he was VERY set against ALL Law Enforcement, but if this story is any indication, if California Law Officers are acting in this manner, if actions such as these were what he used to form his opinions, maybe he wasn’t as far out of line as I thought him to be.

It’s not too often that I agree with a lawyer that is about to sue the crap out of a Police Department but Christopher Dorner is a 6 foot tall, LARGE BLACK MAN! He weighs in at 270 pounds! I don’t care HOW you cut it, that is a BIG guy by ANY standard.

Television images from the scene of the shooting showed newspapers scattered alongside the blue pickup and in the bed of the bullet-ridden vehicle, which sat on the street for hours after the shooting. Jonas said the vehicle was also “the wrong color and the wrong model,” compared to Dorner’s.

I wasn’t there, I didn’t see the shooting take place, I don’t know what actions the 2 small Latina women may have done to provoke such a reaction from the Police, but this just looks BAD to the public and may well be the reaction you get from Officers that aren’t well disciplined or well trained.

It was the wrong type of truck and the wrong color, driven by 2 Latina women. THAT is called a CLUE folks.

Apparently the police in Torrance didn’t get the message either.

About 25 minutes after the shooting, Torrance police opened fire after spotting another truck similar to Dorner’s at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street. No one was reported hurt.

I haven’t seen any pictures of the Torrance truck but I have to say, it IS a miracle that the women in the truck pictured weren’t killed, and that poses another question in my mind, and is one I have addressed before concerning *spray and pray* from Officers in New York City.

I see at least 30 bullet holes in the truck these women were in and evidence tags indicate many more that are not visible in the photo; they lived through it.

Many Police Officers open fire these days and they empty the magazine, that is called *spray and pray* and is a carry-over from the fully automatic weapons used by the military.

Once upon a time marksmanship was a thing an Officer or a Soldier took great pride in, one shot, one kill, that sort of thing. Now, the attitude among many is, “put rounds down range, we’ll hit *something* along the way” and that is NOT acceptable.

I totally understand WHY Officers carry high capacity weapons, I have NO issue with them carrying such weapons, but there needs to be some serious training involved, some weapons training, marksmanship training and proper target acquisition skills.

Back in the *OLD DAYS* cops carried revolvers, they had 6 rounds of ammunition available and then they had to reload their weapon. The *OLD GUYS* that carried those *6 shooters* were much better shooters than these guys today, they had to be, their ammo was limited by the technology of the day.

There are far too many incidents now where Officers fire massive numbers of rounds and didn’t KILL the subject that brought about the shooting, sometimes they didn’t even HIT that subject. In this case, that’s a good thing, otherwise, 2 women would be DEAD and the LAPD would be responsible.

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22 Responses to Dorner manhunt: Lawyer calls shootings of paper carriers ‘unacceptable’

  1. mrchuck says:

    A bad shoot. The police were protecting senior police officials, and someone said it’s him shoot.
    A mess, and one that could of been avoided.
    Bad light, jumpy trigger finger? Must protect the higher echelon.
    We will be hearing about this for a long, long time.

    • Katie says:

      Unless this was a separate call with nothing to do with Dorner. In Torrance, Compton, South-Central newspaper deliverers have been known to be drug deliverers too. Well armed deliverers at that.

      I want all the information to emerge before I come to a judgement.

  2. A blue Tacoma is NOT a gray or silver TITAN. Period. Two Mexican chicks are not one massive black guy.

    There are going to be LOTS of zeros coming, as the result of this.

    BZ

  3. Bunkerville says:

    as I recall, the same thing happend in NYC. I guess I can’t ask about the background of the cops…just wondered if we were meeting the allocation bit. Apparently the screening must be a whole lost less then it use to be.How did Dorner get into the force in the first place? First he had veterans points, then minority, then who knows what.

  4. Gary says:

    The LA Police dept. is huge. And the percentage of officers yielding to the “spray and pray” tactic is likely higher than most departments because of the quantity of armed bad guys in their jurisdiction. It’s a bad tactic for sure, but almost necessary because of the very tight gun control laws that exist in this stupid ass liberal state.

    After a few short years in a black and white, the better, more experienced officers typically move into special units; SWAT, undercover, gang, vice, etc., and operate more in line with the rest of the nation. The patrol officers are typically straight out of the academy, scared to death and are willing to shoot and ask questions later.

    How can you throttle back these young LE officers when they’re the only good guys allowed to be armed, especially, after the manifesto produced by Dorner which clearly articulated the desire to engage in warfare with the LA police dept.

    I agree with you Fred when you said “…but there needs to be some serious training involved, some weapons training, marksmanship training and proper target acquisition skills…”

    There also needs to be a helluva lot more common sense emphasized, but then how does one teach ‘common sense’? I mean, who in their right mind would want to be an LA Police officer to begin with?

    • TexasFred says:

      From the story:

      Sources said the Los Angeles police detectives involved in the Torrance shooting were on protective detail for a police official named in an online manifesto that authorities say was posted to a Facebook page they believe belongs to Dorner.

      Not ALL of em are rookies…

    • Texasperated says:

      I don’t know how fast or at what angle to the shooters the truck was traveling but it appears to have been moving away from them. The shots corresponding to the driver’s side rear window are not bad shots and may even have all come from the same weapon, err, I mean gun. All the shots in the tailgate appear to me to come from several weapons being fired from someone who needs to spend a lot of time on trigger control. He’s clearly jerking the trigger.

      Keep your powder dry

  5. Hgpsurf says:

    Unacceptable action! This should go up the ladder to their superiors and those who “trained” the shooters. All are accountable. If you are wrong then you are wrong and wearing a badge and a uniform is no excuse. If I lived in the area I would definitely not be chosen to be on the jury for the trial on this one.

    I hope all who feel they may be on his list have moved their families temporarily.

  6. Gary says:

    Nope, and I didn’t say they were all rookies. I did say the “…more experienced officers typically move into special units; SWAT, undercover, gang, vice, etc., and operate more in line with the rest of the nation.” I should have added ‘Mature’ to the qualifying description.

    One of the home school dads I knew whilst in SoCal was an LA Police officer, who quickly transitioned to the gang unit, then to undercover (coincidentally, an Army Vet with 2 tours in the sand box). Sharp, articulate, and dedicated. I also knew a Marine who joined the force, but lost track of him after about 6 months.

  7. Gary says:

    Please don’t misunderstand my comments. I am not trying to justify the officer shooting. it was wrong on every level. I was only trying to point out the conditions in which these guys operate. LA is not the typical jurisdiction. I lived some 70 miles away, and the scum had even oozed into my neoghborhood. That place is a cesspool.

  8. Robert says:

    What I take from this: Look at all the bullet holes. The ladies survived. Take a look at the cop car Dorner shot at and KILLED a Cop… I think they counted 4-5 holes. Synopsis: Dorner spent WAY more time on the range and has learned the lessons the NYPD and evidently these LAPD/Torrence cops missed.

    The law enforcement community in SO-Cal are panicking, they are on edge because ONE well armed/well trained individual is out to change policy… Think about that for a minute. IF these politicians keep doing what they’re doing MILLIONS of patriots might do the same thing Dorner’s doing… How’s that going to work?

  9. mrchuck says:

    Regarding the Riverside shooting of the 2 patrol officers in their patrol car,, reports that Dorner used a rifle, most likely a 5.56x 45 cal.
    I will extrapolate from that,, an AR-15 was used, as he has said he has several.
    Dorner pulls up to the right side of the squad car that was at a stop light in Riverside, CA. around 1:45 am,,, stops and opens fire,, punching holes in the right side front door, window,,,, killing one officer, and leaving the other critically wounded. Dorner then drove away towards San Bernadino, CA., and the Big Bear Lake ski area which is high up(7500′),, in the San Bernadino National Forest, where his burned out Nissan p/u was found.
    This was is a quick thinking killing ambush.

    I know the mountains where he went. So do the officers who replaced me after I retired.
    I expect that “trackers”, dogs, and trail specialists are employed . Also drones, spotter aircraft, fixed satellite recon,, which I used,,, had facial close-up recognition qualities. Personally, I don’t believe he is hiding on the forest floor somewhere.
    He could of set a “false trail”,,, then find one of those homes, cabins, etc, that he previously set up with provisions, and have a mode of transportation,, down off the mountain.
    This man is not “Rambo”.
    He has had the last 4 years of getting overweight and out of shape.
    He has a formidable supply of weaponry, and has already used it to kill and make his point.
    If he is found in the high mountain area, The US Marine Corps Mountain Training Warfare soldiers are a 1/2 half-day travel away, up in Bridgeport, CA.
    Look at him as a rogue, rabid animal,, and use extreme prejudice to eliminate him from killing anyone else.
    Use of airborne napalm, white phosphorous, is cleared for use.

  10. Katie says:

    There was a time Fred when a cop didn’t even shoot his gun except on the range. But those days are gone. Today’s criminals now use AK-47s. What is a cop to do? Go fully automatic when confronting a suspect. Especially in Torrance. A city that is so full of gangs that honest citizens are hard to find. These cops either shoot first and ask questions later or die. If these 2 women were shot without cause then the Torrance Police Department is at fault and liable. But if there was some hanky panky involved, then the police were in the right.

  11. Hgpsurf says:

    Back to where Dorner is and I admit I may be 100% off base. He thinks he’s smarter than the LAPD and either paid someone to ditch his truck or ditched it with an accomplice and he drove to the disposal site in a vehicle other than his truck. He knows they will search for him in the area where the truck is found and relishes in outsmarting them. He also knows they will be waiting at the house in Vegas so he will not go there. He knows how the police follow leads so he gives them false leads. Give him credit..he is over the top mad but he still has his faculties. If I’m right he may be anywhere, including Mexico. He also may be about to kill more police or their families.

  12. I think Hgpsurf is on the right track. And I think Dorner has had a long time to think about all of this. At least four years.

    I had to ask myself: why the intervening time between his firing in 2008, his appeal in 2009 and the instigation of violence in 2013? What has he been doing since? And what was the predicating event that made him decide to begin the rampage on Sunday, February 3rd?

    Has he been festering? Just popped? Or has he been planning? Has he been collecting weapons and ammunition? In the meantime, we know he interacted with the US Navy. We know he went to flight training. What other training did he take and why?

    I have a sneaking suspicion he has access to other vehicles, access to other caches of weapons, access to other places to hide. People theorized he was going to try to take a boat to Mexico. I highly doubt that.

    This guy isn’t going away. He isn’t going to retreat and hope people forget about him. That’s not in his wheelhouse. He is a highly motivated individual who happens to be well training, well armed, and is in possession of a rifle that can reach out and touch you, quite accurately, from a thousand yards.

    I suspect his primary motivation is narcissism and, mostly, revenge. He’s not going to commit suicide, he’s not going to “give up.” He’s going to pick his time and place and he’s going to move at night. He knows his mug is plastered all over Southern Fornicalia. He knows every agency down there is on high alert. And he’s absolutely enjoying being the source of some very nervous cops, administrators and one specific police agency.

    For him, these are good times.

    BZ

  13. mrchuck says:

    BZ, I agree with you.
    But I wonder where his money is coming from.
    All this is costly.
    And what did he live on, money wise from dismissal till now??
    Yes, he stated he has a Barrett .50 caliber rifle. I wonder, if true or boast.
    Presently, he is missing.
    I hope he IS in snow country,,,freezing his black ass off.
    Negroes HATE snow, ice, cold weather.
    If he really is there in the San Bernadino National Forest, freezing his ass off, setting up a “west point kill zone”,,, he will not succeed, as every one of the LEO’s there know about it.
    His genes tell me he is not on the mountain, but down somewhere in the ghetto section of Los Angeles,,,, with a girlfriend.
    That is his MO and comfort zone.
    All this manifesto is bullshit behind a screen.
    Remember the 1938 Wizard of Oz movie?
    The wizard was behind a screen making all the noise.
    That is what this Christopher is. Nothing more.
    Tough guy???? dime a dozen.
    He will always be a coward and shoot from a dark place.
    I truly hope he takes a stand somewhere, and starts negotiation from his bunker.
    Send in Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton to negotiate,,,then napalm the bunker.
    That will be a blessing for this USA.

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