The Legal issues of Secession as a Legitimate Recourse of the States

The Legal issues of Secession as a Legitimate Recourse of the States

Secession is a term and a concept that holds various and differing connotations to many individuals. It is an idea seldom thought about by most Americans in our day. Those that have some familiarity with the term generally associate it primarily with the War of 1861-1865. To the majority the concept of secession is a far away notion, little understood and even less thought of as a practical concept applicable to our current political arrangement. After all, most Americans believe that whatever secession was all about the issue must have been settled when the forces of the Union defeated the South.

This treatment of secession is one dimensional and flawed. Most Americans would agree that it is impossible, nay unjust, to settle matters of legal principle through the use of force. On the schoolyard we do not reward the bully that is stronger than his fellows by accepting that his point of view must be right just because he is stronger. We do not accept this in our system of civil law. A mere individual with a right and just cause can and often does prevail against large and powerful corporations on points of justice and legality. It seems un-American to simply accept that a question as powerful as the nature of the compact that holds the Union together might be answered in no other way than force.

Much more here:
Secession as a Legitimate Recourse of the States

Ladies and Gentlemen, there was a time not too long ago when I would have argued, nay, slapped the living hell out of anyone that would have suggested that a state would be legal and correct in attempting an act of secession from the Union of the United States of America. The legality of secession has long been a point of contention among patriots.

I personally thought such an act, in modern times, was best described as an act of treason. I am not convinced that I was wrong! I would prefer to see the United States remain just that, UNITED, but when the federal government ceases to govern, and attempts to expand their powers, greatly expand, and those powers are nothing more than overbearing attempts at full control of the American people and the forcing OF the American people into a government of sheer socialism, it is now time for the American people to act and take this nation back from the brink of disaster, OR, it is time for the individual states to exercise their STATES RIGHTS and LEAVE this unholy debacle that was once the United States of America!

Perhaps the best argument against the legality of secession is the one that rests upon secession being an “insurrection.” Section VIII of Article 1 of the Constitution gives Congress the power to call forth the militia to “suppress insurrections.” However, many people would argue that secession is not an insurrection. They see secession as the withdrawal of recognition of an authority as lawful rather than the refusal to obey recognized lawful authority. In addition, secession is not in itself an aggressive action taken against the residue of states left within the Union. It is a point often overlooked, but some states that seceded during the Civil War are very proud of the fact that they did not declare war – or fight an offensive war – against the Union, but only fought a defensive war in order to be able to govern themselves as they saw fit. Northerners should remember this if they wish to understand the thinking of many in the South. SOURCE: The Legality of Secession

There are many that seem to believe that secession is an act against the constitution of the United States, an act of insurrection. Under that interpretation I am sure the United States could take action to preserve the Union.

I don’t know that the current administration would have the guts TO take action, I am more of the belief that *The One* would want to discuss it with Russia and Iran 1st, and then offer us some type of missile shield assurance. Yes, that IS sarcasm!

The U.S. Constitution does not expressly recognize or deny a right of secession. Accordingly, the argument for a right of unilateral secession begins (and pretty much ends) with a claim about the very nature of the Constitution.

That document, by the terms of its Article VII, only obtained legal force through the ratification by nine states, and then only in the states so ratifying it. Because the Constitution derived its initial force from the voluntary act of consent by the sovereign states, secessionists argued, a state could voluntarily and unilaterally withdraw its consent from the Union.

In this view, the Constitution is a kind of multilateral treaty, which derives its legal effect from the consent of the sovereign parties to it. Just as sovereign nations can withdraw from a treaty, so too can the sovereign states withdraw from the Union. SOURCE: Does the Constitution Permit the Blue States to Secede?

I am NOT a constitutional scholar, I don’t claim to be, but there is a vein of dissatisfaction ripping through this nation the likes of which we have never seen. Many states, not just Texas, are making an effort to establish their sovereignty for the United States.

Twenty states standing up to the federal government and demanding a return to constitutional principles is a great start, but it remains to be seen whether legislatures and governors are brave enough or angry enough to follow through. As the Obama administration and the Democratic Congress push for more expansion of federal power and spending that may help provide the motivation needed for the sovereignty movement to take off. SOURCE: State Sovereignty Movement Quietly Growing

I don’t know if this sovereignty movement will result in calls for secession, but it well could, and for the 1st time in my 55 years I am honestly looking into the possibility of making secession a viable option in this great state of Texas!

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53 Responses to The Legal issues of Secession as a Legitimate Recourse of the States

  1. TopGun says:

    It is my understanding Texas gave up the right, as all southern states did, to secession from the Union when they rejoined it after the Civil War.

    Texas is the only state that has the right to break up into five separate states. Texas would gain eight US Senators in Congress. Not all would be conservative though being some would come from your valley area, democrat territory.

    You change the feds and fight for the “country” is the answer.

    Why break up the greatest country, the sole super power, to ever exist on this planet through secession?

  2. Ingrid says:

    GREAT NEWS FRED………
    To stay within the Union would be much better but, if they don’t let BofA, AIG, Fannie & Freddie etc, etc, go under and let another company take over from the gecko, then I feel I would stand behind anyone and give my signature to this State seceding from this nation.
    I believe I understand why most people over the age of 45 can see that the same companies (many with different names) and the same politicians who caused the last S&L debacle should all be kicked out of this country or jailed.
    I hope everyone truly understands how devastating this is for our children and grandchildren. So why are we still allowing this administration to put through stimulus after stimulus?

    We are not asking for a guarantee and they are saying their not sure if these billions upon billions we are giving them are going to work. Which leaves me to a questions…….What are they doing with the money and were is the transparency?

    Look what the greedy corporate owners and politicians have done.

    We act like we don’t care…..why? because all we do is email each other, watch the news all in the privacy of our homes.

    Do you really think anyone is going to get up off their ass and start a march. I have about 200 people I can round up. How about you?
    Wake up!

  3. TexasFred says:

    Top, I would only advocate such if this nation was absolutely in an irreparable state, I feel that we are very close TO that now…

  4. Kate says:

    Off the top of my head, after reading the first link, something struck me. Back in the 70s, and I KNOW you remember…..states were FORCED to lower their speed limit to 55mph. If they refused, they were denied ‘federal funds’. Even back then, I found this to be more than a tad disconcerting, considering the federal gubmint HAS NO MONEY! NONE. Zip. Zero. Zilch. What we see going on now is basically the same thing, only on a much grander (not grand as in great :P ) than anything I ever thought possible.

  5. Alan Bryant says:

    in reply to TopGun

    This is no longer that same country.

    A march is not going to do any good…the only things Washington understands is votes, and I don’t even know if that will do any good.

    I’m with Fred on this one, I never supported secession before. I loved this country, but it’s not the same country that I grew up in, not anymore. Things don’t seem to be changing for the better, either.

  6. Malinda777 says:

    In reality…I don’t think it’s possible, nor am I sure Texas could survive sitting between a Nation that would be very angered toward them, and Mexico that keeps spilling over it’s venom onto sacred Texas soil. However…a whole lot of states together mad enough to SERIOUSLY contemplate and threaten our Feds with this possibility… may be enough to straighten their asses up a bit… perhaps sooner than it would take us in due course to get them all voted out one at a time.

    I don’t know that I would be a huge fan of seccession…I kind of believe like TopGun…FIX it…not seceed from it. However that being said…I was just talking to my commercial insurance guy that was in my office today about your post on the HCR50 & HCR66…I shit you NOT what he said to me…

    He comes from Vegas…and said for a long time, Zurich has had set up in their legalese and corporate structure a “Universal Underwriter’s Group” and a SEPARATE “Universal Underwriter’s Group of Texas”…just in the event such a thing ever happened.

    SO….there must be some know-it-all’s somewhere that do not believe it’s entirely impossible…otherwise why would HUGE corporations have legal means already in place to do business with Texas on another level. WHY would companies spend all that legal monies on big giant What-If’s?…

    Oh yeah…I was just reminded again of all the corporate waste that caused half this mess :) But you catch my drift don’t you… I found that very odd and never knew companies had forethought the secession of Texas legally before :o

  7. Alan Bryant says:

    In reply to the comment about Texas giving up the right to secession, if we read the founding documents the way the founding fathers wanted them to be read, anyone has the right to secede if the government no longer has the people’s best interests in mind. This administration and congress has made it quite clear that they do not care about our best interests, they only care about expanding government and expanding their strangle hold on society.

  8. TexasFred says:

    OK, fix it..

    HOW do we do that?? How do we fix the most money hungry, debt ridden and deficit harnessed government ever??

    If there’s a solution, explain HOW to make it happen, because at this point in time, all I see is the USA going even deeper into unnecessary debt and deeper into the pockets of foreign powers…

  9. TopGun says:

    Malind777,

    Don’t forget, Texas has its own electric grid too.

    I believe if there was enough uprising by true Patriots willing to give their all, you would see change real quick.

    The fire of Patriotism is not dead in the country. People are just blowing on the ambers right now to start a vey small fire “presently” to send a signal they better not go further, but they will throw timber on it real fast to build a bond fire if needed I can assure you.

    When your roots go back to the times of the Pilgrims, like mine do, and you can tie your family to historical events they were apart of before the founding of this country, I am willing to die to make change happen in the country, before breaking that very country up.

    Just remember people, the Japanese did not attack the heartland because they were smart enough to know what the Tiger would do when it comes to defending the homeland against all, even domestic enemies, and a few are about to find out I am afraid.

  10. TopGun says:

    Fred,

    The “fix” can not be typed on your blog, ;-) though everyone “knows” what the fix is and have typed all around it on a whole lot of blogs without directly coming right out and typing it.

  11. Katie says:

    It just may come to this Fred. We are heading towards a civil war over our rights. The idea of succession is becoming more inviting each day.

  12. TexasFred says:

    Well Top, that wasn’t the *fix* I was referring to… :D

    Even *that* wouldn’t do it unless the entire thing, ALL the left side and a hell of a swath on the right were fixed simultaneously, and that just isn’t going to happen..

    Besides, that dumb purple lipped bastard is NOT the cause, he’s just the idiot throwing OUR money into a raging inferno… And even if HE were stopped, his minions would only continue…

    And for the record, Bush was NO better, he was the guy at the helm when all this BS started basically, and he wasted BILLIONS of dollars himself, all to free a people that didn’t want to be, to find WMDs that weren’t there and to depose a maniacal dictator that really did need to go but was none of OUR business..

    And of course the 8 years of Clinton was NO help either, but, Big Bill did leave a budget surplus…

  13. Secession, I have thought, would be the last step in a long march to regain our sovereignty. That is, if all other available steps taken did not bring about the righting of this ship of state, then maybe it would be time to cut loose the sinking hulk and lay a new keel.

    If that means that DC becomes a huge useless cesspool on the east coast, with the seat of power moving further west into the area where America really lives, then so be it. Just bring the monuments with us. Let the lefty blue liberals whine and play with their ball in their home territory – just leave the right red conservatives to our own devices. I’m pretty darn sure that with “a shotgun, a rifle, and a four wheel drive” we are going to be better off than the elitist and deluded few.

    Secession? We may not be that far away from it. If it comes, Im ready. And I know where a few like-thinking fellows happen to hang out…

  14. Kylevet says:

    Fred,

    I’ll keep it toned down, and say that the Civil War wasn’t a Civil war (at least how I understand it). A Civil War is an attempt by a group out of power to violently seize control and overthrow a country’s government. The American Civil War was more appropriately a War for Southern Independence. Of course, the winners write the history books.

    And you’re right, I’m afraid its beyond fixing. It will take a revolution, I hope and pray its a voting one, not a shooting one. But I don’t see any hope of a voting one.

    You are dead on about Bush. I believe it was Shakespeare who said “He hateth the most, who is deceiveth the worst.” I voted for him twice, and feel really, really decieved. For all the reasons you listed. He had an incredible opportunity with “conservatives” in control of the legislature, and he squandered it, because there’s nothing “conservative” about him. He could have really addressed social security, welfare, the federal education system, drug laws (okay that’s all I’ll say about that here) and he wasted it all avenging his daddy.

    The folks at Concord Green were certainly called Traitors and Terrorists by the Brits.

    So what do we do? Whose ready to take the first bullet for it? For now, I suppose like cary said, know where some like-thinking folks hang out, and stay ready….

  15. TopGun says:

    Fred,

    LOL. I did not mean to just fix, solve, just “one” problem. They would “all” be repaired, solved, in one swath to re-establish ALL of our rights.

    Now do you see what I was talking about when I was discussing the second amendment a few months back and stated “we” should, like we “originally” had, have just as much right to any and all the weapons, except a nuke, the government has a right to so we can defend ourselves from what we are currently facing and is happening, a Dictator overthrowing our rights? I hope you now see the original intent, and “the power”, as to what “arms” should cover in order for the citizens to maintain their Liberty? ;- )

    What we have now is like walking to fight WW 3 with a pocket knife. We are out gunned, but not out flanked.

  16. Pingback: Blue Collar Republican » Blog Archive » I Could Not Agree More

  17. TopGun says:

    “This is no longer that same country. I loved this country, but it’s not the same country that I grew up in, not anymore. Things don’t seem to be changing for the better, either.” – Alan Bryant
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    Reading that above, it does not look like you are willing to fight for your country, especially when you say, “loved”, that is, love with a “D”, past tense.

    I still love my country, and nobody is going to “change” my country and “take” my rights without a fight.

    I deleted some of what I typed on my thoughts. I figured I did not want to create an all out verbal battle here.

  18. TexasFred says:

    Top, I don’t think ANY of us don’t love the USA, as it once was, but that USA is already gone man, and I am not trying to start a verbal war either, but once in a while you just burn the shit down, hit the delete button and start over…

    We need a fresh start, and if ANY state can sustain themselves in a secession, Texas is it!

  19. Kylevet says:

    Wow, cool that somebody’s not mad at me.

    TopGun, agreed but I fear it has already happened. (the “change my country” part).

    So, what do we do? What’s the first step? We desperately need a cohesive leader to start any ball rolling, as a political movement first. Otherwise like you said earlier, we are way outgunned.

  20. TexasFred says:

    Top, maybe you need to take a look at this too: The Murder of America, or how we became the USSA

  21. Kylevet says:

    You’re right about Texas being able to sustain itself in a secession. We have plenty of military, plenty of natural resources, and don’t forget we control space, communications, satellites with NASA.

    But if it is just a sporadic uprising, without being a unified effort, we are way outgunned. They would control the cities and the air. We could take some isolated outposts, but we can’t win without a political leader. And I don’t see one in the current crop that’s there now.

  22. Vigilante says:

    Top Gun
    I ain’t really so sure about being outgunned as much as you are thinking. According to the feedback from people that I know, there is gonna be more help from the military than what you think. They are no dummies and they can see what’s going on. They have families just like us and they remember what them bunch of pricks were saying while they were putting their lives on the line in Iraq.

  23. TexasFred says:

    Out gunned?? The U.S. army, with unfettered resources, has NOT been able to fully pacify Iraq in over 6 years, and Afghanistan in almost 8 years…

    Both are of less land area than the state of Texas… Think about that for a moment…

  24. TopGun says:

    It isn’t over. The fight has not even started yet, good God. All that has taken place so far is the foreplay.

    Are you people telling me you are not willing to physically fight for the USA to regain what is OURS?

  25. Basti says:

    I’ve always been a supporter of secession. Once in never out isn’t written in the US Constitution and to the best of my knowledge the US isn’t the Mafia where once you’re in you’re never out. US is a collection of 50 ‘separate states’. States is another word for nation/country.

    The War Between the States was a war of aggression by the Union to force the states that had left the Union back into the Union. I’ve always said it was an ‘illegal war’ and the Confederacy had the right to from its own nation. What the Confederacy was doing was no more than what the original 13 Colonies were doing in 1776. Lincoln had been portrayed as the ‘Great Unifier’. I call him the first US dictator.

    Of course I’m Southern born so my feelings on this are influenced by place of birth.

    I do support secession as a last recourse when the Fed’s refuse to listen to its citizens like they’re doing now. Or when citizens are faced with what amounts to a dictatorship and we’re dangerously close to that as well.

  26. TexasFred says:

    Top, I have fought FOR this nation all my life, look what we have…

    I have a 4 year old grandson and a 2 year old grandson and 2 more grands on the way, they already OWE this fucking government several thousands of dollars…

    I for one think it’s time to start over as a REAL and sustainable Republic, not a socialist nest of vipers…

  27. TopGun says:

    Fred,

    I hear you. I just rather see if we can right the ship before we blow holes in the hull and watch it sink.

    You know what the declaration says about replacing, so, why the heck not follow what our past leaders wrote?

    Just ask yourself what would our founders have done who wrote about replacing when they do not follow the Constitution.

  28. Jack Dup says:

    If we have several states secede then we can still be united. There is no hope for much of the west coast and the east coast.

  29. TexasFred says:

    Jack, I figure the west coast is so full of libbers that it’s a lost cause right from the start, the good folks of California, Oregon and Washington will have to move out or live with being dominated by La Raza assholes…

    The upper east coast is a waste of time too, anything north of Virginia isn’t worth having anyway…

    Done right this could encompass 2/3 of the current USA as long as Texas doesn’t become a Free Republic unto itself…

    This is NOT one of those written in stone things but there are far too many Americans today that are past the point of fed up, past the point of anger and it won’t take very much more to get even the most timid *fence sitters* angered to action…

    And there are libs in Texas, and many other areas that could be a part of this, and to them I say, love it or leave it, if we become a free and representative Republic they may as well just toddle off to New York or L.A. and hang out with the rest of their latte sipping faggot and libber buddies..

  30. TopGun says:

    We might be between two warring countries if we choose secession. LOL

    http://www.nationalterroralert.com/updates/2009/03/03/threat-of-mexican-drug-cartels-near-crisis/

  31. StormWarning says:

    1) Will a civil war be fought over “2nd Amendment rights” when the 2nd Amendment is constantly misinterpreted? Referring again to a very credible source, http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

    2) TopGun is correct in interpreting the rights of Texas to break itself up into multiple states (I thought it was into six and not five as he wrote, but whatever).

  32. TopGun says:

    Answer to the caselaw link – Some people just like to write obviously. The second Amendment is what it is. The people who read more into it than what it is are the very people who are attempting to disarm society from their Constitutional right.

  33. TexasFred says:

    Top, on that we are 100% in agreement… The simplest and most easily understood words, interpreted in so many directions, and thought to hold so many meanings, when basically it says, don’t mess with a pissed off gun owner that IS a member of a Well-Regulated Militia!

  34. Kylevet says:

    Fred, so what do we do?

    If it starts as a disorganized uprising, the feds will quash it quick. Some of you guys are very skilled at arms, no doubt. Most of us probably more like me–I’m lucky to hit a deer at 300 yards, and he’s not shooting back. But even assuming a fairly organized, fairly well trained local militia, going against Predator drones & blackhawks? Done deal. Even assuming you can train people like me, if it is disorganized, it will be over before it starts.

    Sure, a few federal buildings can be taken, a few outposts taken, but anything meaningful? The only meaningful thing is the feds, with the full power of the media, will decry it as the acts of deranged “terrorists”, (see Tim McVeigh, Marvin Heemeyer, David Koresh, et. al). I’m not defending or decrying what they did, but it will end in that manner. They started (well, not Koresh) with violence, not be getting a grass roots effort firts. Some of you guys will do better than others, and nearly all of you better than me, but we’d all be just a bloody footnote in the history of oppression. And my kids will be without a father. None of us can stand against air superiority, which the feds will maintain in the absence of a full blown, organized revolt.

    Banging on a keyboard until we get so lathered up we go take a federal building and get quashed isn’t the anwer. I’ll take a bullet for my Christ, for freedom, to protect my family, but not just to make a statement that will be used against everyone else.

    And the worst thing is, Obama & his minions will use it as an excuse to further trample our rights. Think we lost some rights after 9/11? I’m afraid we ain’t seen nothing, yet, til someone in the U.S. gives them any sort of excuse. Don’t forget they will have the full cooperation of the media.

    Now, if it started as an organized secession movement, that’s a different story. If we get portions of the military behind us at first, so at least we have some answer to predators & blackhawks & special ops guys with NVG, it would be a different story. Texas does have the resources to win–if it were organized. We have NASA, we have oil, we have arms, we have military infrastructure. Especially if some other states came with us (Florida with Cape Canaveral?). For now, we have money, until they drain it out of us with the “bailout” of the coasts.

    We need a leader to unite behind. We need a full on political (to start) secession movement. We need a candicate for governor running on a secessionist agenda. Unfortunately, I don’t see any hope in the current crop of candidates. Fred for Governor?

    I’m new to this forum, and got off on a bad foot yesterday with a few comments–my apologies to all, especially Kate, if anything offended. I have looked around other forums/blogs, and most just seem to be lathered up people banging away furiously on a keyboard, many just self-serving. I don’t know you guys, but I know guys like you, and if we can somehow unite, stay connected, start it as a political movement, let them initiate the violence if it happens, then, okay. Just might work. What would be the next real step?

  35. sdkar says:

    If Texas does decide to succeed from the USA, I would think quite a number of people would surely consider moving there…bringing with them, their skills and their money. The direction of the USA today is dissappointing to say the least. I wish that every state had more leeway on how they could run things. That way, the USA could accomodate everyone. If you believe in gun rights, there could be a state that has no insane gun laws. Gay marriage, another state would allow that, if abortion is your thing, than move to the abortion state. If you like hookers and weed, than a state could allow that. If all 50 states were all allowed to customize their laws to certain “views” of people, than choose match your beliefs to a state and move there. This way, if you don’t want to own a gun, you move to the state of Gunaphobia. You want to home school, there is a state for that too. You get the drift. If the south had won the war, I wonder if this would have been more of a reality. I wonder if it would and could really happen. I would certainly like to see them exercise their legal rights to the fullest extent if they legally could “detach” themselves in some way wihtout bloodshed. This one size fits all USA seems to be difficult if not impossible when you consider the number of “personalities” we have. To each his own, and for all, a place to live.

    On a side note, didn’t the Florida keys try to do this and become the conch republic or something like that?

  36. sdkar says:

    Also, all of the states could still agree to defend and fight together against foreign enemies. They just get to pick the laws on how the citizens want to live. No more of this moving to a state and than demand they changle the laws to fit your view of how everyone should live. Just move to the state where everyone is as like minded as you and shut up. No interferring with how other states run things. Kinda like all of the neighbors on my block. I don’t tell my neighbors how to raise their kids, whether he should own a gun, how fast he drives, etc…but when help is needed, all of the neighbors help each other, regardless of how different they live.

  37. TexasFred says:

    Kylevet, you are talking about going to WAR…

    1. IF that was a plan, you don’t discuss it… Fight Club ring any bells?

    2. NEVER let ANYONE know your plans in some screed on a website.

    3. Some folks take on the instant persona of RAMBO the minute this is mentioned…

    4. Give it a rest man…

  38. On the issue of secession, it’s an interesting concept yet so foreign to everyone save a few on the internet that in reality it will be met with disdain and then anger. Perhaps a few thousand can be found in the entire state of Texas who would have both the intent and the present ability to carry out such an attempt. However, in the urban areas, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Houston, urban areas, there are too many parasites, too many moderates and too much indifference to accomplish anything close to that goal.

    And this in consideration that Texas would possibly be in the best shape for a movement like this to gain ground. Still I harbor little positivism.

    I am still of the opinion that we, the United States, must reach such a low point and hit bottom with such an impact that most everyone, even politicians, judges, etc., are massively affected.

    And we still have a long ways to go before we strike the rock floor.

    However, I posit that continued speech involving secession may begin to have an impact of sorts; but only of sorts.

    BZ

  39. TexasFred says:

    I am still of the opinion that we, the United States, must reach such a low point and hit bottom with such an impact that most everyone, even politicians, judges, etc., are massively affected.

    BZ, we’re already there, the Dems and RINOs are still unaffected, they have TAX DOLLARS to fall back on, OUR tax dollars…

    The current system of governing in the USA is broken, I feel beyond repair. Even if the 2010 midterms were a glowing sweep for the RNC, even if 2012 saw the RNC seat a Repub candidate, the system is screwed, and even solid conservatism can’t fight back from the numbers that MORON Bush and now Obama have us down to…

  40. Carl Andrews says:

    FRED!
    I thought we were buddies!
    Anything north of Virginia isn’t worth having?
    You’re throwing one of the few patriots in Pennsylvania under the bus!!

    Seriously, I don’t think this is a question of IF this is going to happen, but WHEN.

  41. Kate says:

    @Carl
    Move south! :)

  42. TexasFred says:

    Carl, we ARE buddies, but I am guessing that WHEN this shit hits the fan you’ll be OUT of PA pronto!!

    We will leave the light on for you, c’mon down!! :P

  43. TexasFred says:

    Fred and Kate… GMTA…

  44. Carl Andrews says:

    You might want to watch making that offer Fred, I may take you up on it.

  45. TexasFred says:

    If the shit hits the fan we’ll be waiting for you, I NEVER make offers or promises I don’t mean!!

  46. Ingrid says:

    TIS, TIS……some of you guys watch to many war movie.

    There are a number of good and reasonable solutions to determine if secession is what the people of Texas want.

    #1: Meet with all the senators and congressmen of Texas
    in a town hall forum type meeting.
    #2: Pick and ask community leaders from certain cities
    to attend and ask the questions we the people need
    an answer to.
    #3: Insist that these financial institutions go under with no
    more money or kick them off shore.
    #4: Insist that none of these companies be allowed to run
    there businesses in the great State of Texas.
    #5: Senators and Congress people can be easily RECALLED.
    #6: We the people can and will ask for a new election to
    replace everyone in this great state of Texas.

    There should be no rush to run into a disaster if we can avoid it. It may seem daunting but, I think we can all agree that this 40 something trillion difficit we are leaving our children and grandchildren much be erased and they…..the powerful, greedy, arrogant, rich elite must pay for all of this. Does everyone realize that if they put all their assets together they can wipe out this defficit . Which brings to mind; a few years ago they confiscated and froze all of Enrons capital.
    Why hasn’t anyone on TV or on the Web or in the news papers talked about why, why why they didn’t do this with AIG, Fannie & Freddie, Lehman’s, banks, etc. How many of you call, write, fax, email your senators, congressmen, governors? We all take the time to vote for these smooth talken ass holes but can’t seem to take the time to do the later. As Senator Shumer (not sure of the spelling) said on tv a couple of weeks ago about all the porkies and earmarks they’re adding…..”the people don’t care”. In other words, he is saying we are menial workers that don’t know any better and we should just keep to our homes and write each other email blogs and watch the news and be appeased by the fact that we have a computer and a tv. Jolly!!!!!
    I not only fear, I know that this money is not going to a new health program (that’s just a deversion) The unions have and will continue to control a big part of our governement.(like the mafia) This country is heading for socialistic marxist control. The rich elite like socialism. We are helping them get ready for this and all we can say…..email me, watch this web or tune to this channel.

    We don’t need guns or knives. All we need is our able bodies and a brain to tell OUR government what we want them to do.

    Wake up……it might be too late though.

  47. Ingrid says:

    To answer my own question….know why they didn’t allow these financial institutions to go under (they would have never gone under, but they would have lost a lot of money due to their greed …thanks to the clinton’s.) because a lot of these greedy politicians had a hugh investment in them.
    They know that they can get the smooth talker like his majesty to convince HIS PEOPLE that they must take 50% of our hard earned money to keep them happy.

    I ask, what’s wrong with us. Are we stupid when it comes to politics or finance or we don’t give a shit. Are we all planning to move out of the country? But, where….we are the only real capatalistic country left.

    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE READ ON A DAILY BASIS WHAT THESE IDIOTS ARE DOING BEFORE THEY TAKE ALL OUR HARD EARNED MONEY OR SEND ALL OUR YOUNG PEOPLE TO A WWIII.

  48. Ingrid says:

    3/5/09…Just got this email from McCain. Please call, email your senators, congress people, and governors and friends in other states. Can anyone say IMPEACH!!!!!! or is it to early?

    My Friend,

    While campaigning for change, Barack Obama said, “We need earmark reform, and when I’m President, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely.” But now the President is about to sign a huge 2,697 page spending bill with over 9,000 unnecessary and wasteful earmarks. That’s not the “change” we are looking for. I have called on the President to take a principled stand and veto the bill if it is sent to him, but unfortunately, he appears ready to sign it into law, which is nothing more than politics as usual.

    It’s no secret that I’ve spent my political career fighting against out-of-control, wasteful spending in Congress. And in nearly 30 years, I have never witnessed the type of alarming and irresponsible spending as I have seen in Washington over the past few weeks.

    I am appalled to see this legislation being rushed through the Congress while containing so many egregious earmarks. It is unconscionable that while we are asking Americans to do more with less in these trying economic times we are about to spend $1.7 million for pig odor research in Iowa, $2 million for the promotion of astronomy in Hawaii, $475,000 for a parking garage in Provo City, Utah, $300,000 to build a Montana World Trade Center, and $150,000 for a rodeo museum in South Dakota.

    Simply put, your federal tax dollars should not be funding these types of projects.

    Let me put this all in perspective — our country is currently nearly $11 trillion dollars in debt. Our projected deficit for 2009 alone is an alarming $2 trillion dollars. Just two weeks ago, President Obama signed a bill that the Democratic-led Congress passed to spend an additional $1 trillion in “stimulus spending.” And on top of all of this, President Obama has requested $3.6 trillion in additional spending for 2010.

  49. TexasFred says:

    3/5/09…Just got this email from McCain. Please call, email your senators, congress people, and governors and friends in other states. Can anyone say IMPEACH!!!!!! or is it to early?

    It’s NEVER too early!! I was ready on election day!! Just click the link!! Impeach Barack Obama

  50. Ingrid says:

    Went to your Impeach B.O. Great Idea but, are you having China print these up? They’ll probably do it for free, don’t you think. They know they will not get half of their money back from good ole obama.

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